Boom! Anyone who finds a way to tie in Swami Sri Yukteshwar, teacher and guru of the great Paramahansa Yogananda and Berwick (LOL) in the same sentence has my attention. 100% agree on Yukteshwar’s perspective.
Boom! Anyone who finds a way to tie in Swami Sri Yukteshwar, teacher and guru of the great Paramahansa Yogananda and Berwick (LOL) in the same sentence has my attention. 100% agree on Yukteshwar’s perspective.
Thanks for referring the link and article. IMHO, the impressive length, did not necessarily equate to impressive credibility. Although written intelligently, there were contradictions and questionable references, that other assumptions were build on.
For example, scholar and 'nationalist of India' BG Tilak in his 1903 book asserts the Puranas were written about 1800 years ago, which is not a view held by most Vedic scholars.
Other opinions brought into the mix, such as those of Al-beruni passing negative judgement on Brahmagupta for holding to the information found in the Sanksrit Smirti, (which was recorded knowledge that was passed down for years by oral tradition). Was Al-beruni, as an Islamic scholar passing through India, predisposed to discrediting Hindu orthodoxy, one may wonder? Was his endorsement of newer speculations totally impartial and reasonable, in trashing the orthodox Smriti texts? Anyway, building a case based on BG Tilak and Yuktie's ideas as foundational, is not airtight by any means in my opinion.
As with practically any modern writing evaluating history, this author has stated many times - it could be, or perhaps, or maybe this happened which caused that, so we can conclude this.. not so fast tiger... such speculative lines of reasoning is also not a foundation of credibility.
The author goes on to quote a Western expert "Orientalist" who compares cultures and concludes Lord Rama appeared about 8,000 years ago, and was the same personality as Dionysus found in the writings from Greece... Wow! that's a jump there buddy! There are more than one or two scholars, that would call this complete nonsense.
People can write anything they want about the past, without having a clue as to what was actually happening, in various locations in various times - but who knows for sure?
Our only sources of information are those handed down orally, or written - which are naturally contradictory, due to the different subjective interpretations - unless they were handing down with information unchanged in a line of masters to disciples, but even then over the course of time, things tend to break down. There were other contradictions in the article, which added to the specter of doubt that I have about it's conclusions, but to use an over-used and now somewhat annoying phrase "it is what it is" - yet I will invoke it...lol.
It may very well be that there are cycles within cycles, which overlap from different points of view or cultures. There may be layered timelines that tell the same story, from different reference points. I will stick with the one I've learned from my spiritual masters lineage, because I can see the symptoms of Kali yuga all around me, and progressing in a certain direction - but at the same time, a Golden Age sub-calculation that is supposed to last for 10,000 years with in the long Kali yuga duration ahead. I'm not planning be around, to see it out :-). I would love to see a new era begin in 2025, whatever you want to label it, as I also think and hope the political and economic shitshow we are enduring in the present moment, will not last much longer, to be followed by the birth of a completely new way of living, as the old dies out.. specifically the mother-wefers. We don't need to have enmity on the details, since we are brothers and sisters in the same fight - to rid ignorance from our own hearts and minds and be of service to the truth of a greater reality and conscious Creator/Source we all have in common.
Well, there you go. Clif put out his opinion, and it generated yours. I thought your response was very interesting and gave me more information. I find it great to get deeper and expand on what he said! I would read more about it if I had the time, so thanks for your input. I underline the last three lines in your last paragraph. Thanks again.
Cycles in Cycles and there are an incredible variation in Cycles, and when negative ones align,look out. Great Post. Personally, I think , and m pretty sure, that the perceived periods of when things happened are a very long way off. It is perceived, for example, that characters and events were after the start of the interglacial optimum but to me, do appear to be firmly embedded earlier, in the Ice Age. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍🌟🌟🌟
I agree with you that some fairly accepted ideas of humanity and timeline, are probably seriously out of whack. Years ago some friends of mine Micheal Cremo and Richard Thompson researched and wrote a book called Forbidden Archeology, which questioned many of the long held theories and timelines for humanity on earth.
I'm not saying it's absolutely definitive for all things past, but it shows abundant inconsistencies that made many squirm who wanted their established narratives etched in stone, so to speak.
From the volumes and volumes of Vedic literature translated into English and brought to America in the sixties, it seems clear to me that before this Kali yuga started about 5,000 years ago, the people of the Dwarpa Yuga were more highly advanced in knowledge of all types, compared to today. It's literally written in the books. That's not to say that there were not pockets of more primitive peoples inhabiting the earth. It's true today; why not then?
Descriptions of multi-universes, inhabitants of higher and lower planetary systems as determined by the levels of consciousness on those planets, the seeding of life on different planets - as the assigned mission of high-consciousness beings capable of inter dimensional and inter-planetary travel, plus travel various means has been described. Priests not only had the power to light sacrificial flames by sound/mantra, and had other mystic powers by being attuned to subtle energies, up to the point of release atomic-like weapons through sound/mantra. There are rare yogis even today in India that have some level of mystic power but they don't travel the world for fun and profit.
It's easy to get caught up in the side-shows and rabbit holes of the matrix/matterium we are in, but personally I'm aiming for pure, spiritual loving expressions of service as a means of not having to repeat the lessons of classroom earth - rather than trying to remain here as hopeful ring-master in a nut-job circus. Not trying to sound overly pious or beyond-it-all, just sayin'.
At the risk of too-much-info, there is a nice teaching in the Bhagavat Purana, wherein just as Krishna has left the planet, the personality of Kali Yuga appeared on earth; he was dressed as a king, and was about to kill a cow. The real king happened on the scene, as was about to kill the imposter who was about to kill the cow. The cow was actually the personality of Mother Earth, and was standing only one leg, as the others had been incapacitated by injury. The king asked Mother Earth, who had accosted her. She didn't blame anyone directly, but said it was from the on-set of the age of Kali, her injuries began. Her four legs represented the four qualities of the brahminical or priestly class, which were truthfulness, cleanliness, austerity, and mercy. All of these qualities had practically become absent due to the onslaught of the age of Kali. The only quality left was truthfulness; it was the one leg holding her upright.
The king banished the imposter to live only were unscrupulous acts occur, and thus the personality of Kali had more and more places to reside, as time and the Kali Yuga progressed. We can see today that the symptoms of Kali Yuga have almost full reign, as the last leg of goodness represented by truthfulness is now almost completely absent in the words of the so-called leaders of society, who are low-class cheaters with horrible intentions, dressed up as noble leaders.
So that is the stage, set for the Kali Yuga movie. Fortunately, we don't have to let the bad actors, rule our lives!
I was gonna post a response up top, but after I read yours, there's no point - and you said it better. I see the same "bleed-in" of "ages" - nothing changes on this scale just because a bell rang. I'm gonna have to "re-up" to finish this karmic thread.
Serendipitously, Daniel Pinchbeck has just posted a new article on the subject of the End of Time:
"According to René Guénon, Julius Evola, Alain Danielou, and Helena Blavatsky, among others, we are living at the nadir of the Kali Yuga, the fourth, final, degenerate epoch."
Thanks Thomas. I had a quick look - reading was was available without signing up for the site. Looks interesting. Admittedly, the contributing authors are looking through their own lenses and ideas to coalesce a structured understanding or conclusion as to the Yuga cycle meaning.
The Vedas assert that the experience of time is different, in different planets or realms of consciousness. By earthly measure, huge amounts of time pass in correlation to 1 day in the higher planetary systems, where perfected mystic yogis reside - albeit they are still within the confines of this universe. A bit more philosophy in connection to Yuga concepts is below, if you feel so inclined to check it out. In any case thanks for your interest and update.
Brahma is called a Guna-Avatar of Krishna/Narayana/Vishnu as the secondary creator of the universe, performing the passionate act of creation in this one universe. There is said to be a Brahma in each universe. Brahma's primary Guna, or Mode, is passion (Rajas) in his creative function and Brahma is thus seen as an embodiment or Avatar of Narayana - regarding the material mode of passion. Maintenance is by Vishnu, and universal destruction by Siva - they are Guna Avatars of Sattva (Goodness) and Tamas (ignorance) respectively.
As this relates to the topic at hand, a partial devastation (pralaya) of the universe takes place after one day of Brahma. A day of Brahma is described in Bhagavad Gita as being the time of the four yugas cycles combined (Sattya+Treta+Dwarpara+Kali), times 1000 = one day of Brahma. After one day of Brahma the creation is partially destroyed by flooding of universal waters, and it remains un-manifested for an equivalent period - (the total years of the 4 yuga cycles combined, times 1000) is considered to be one night of Brahma.
In the Bhakti/Vaishnava lineage, Godhead is considered to be non-dual (Advaita) energies, but seen from 3 angles of vision according to the realization of the viewer .
1. Is the universal energy of Brahman, which is like the shining, non-material aura of the body of the absolute - it is all pervading, connected, brilliant spiritual energy. 2. The the Supersoul, or conscious universal guide who lives in each heart along side of the individual soul, and even within the atoms and atomic sub-particles. 3. the Personality of Godhead, who is universally and personally conscious in both divine masculine and divine feminine features of pure spiritual identity - which are also unlimited in their expansions.
The somewhat inconceivable expansions from one source into many can be understood better by realization, directly by the mercy of the Supersoul within one's heart, to a consciously aware individual - as opposed to theoretical intellectual calculation, which has it's limits of projected ideas as opposed to actual experiential realization by grace.
Manifestation and dissolution of the material universes, is considered to be 1/4 of all divine energy, with 3/4 of the spiritual energy eternally existing beyond the creation/destruction cycles of the matterium/material creation.
One interesting note is that at the end of each Kali yuga, where humankind's misuse of God-given free will gets so irresponsible and diverted in relationship to the potential expression of unconditional love in connection to Source, that a Vishnu avatar named Kalki, appears and basically liberates everyone from their self-inflicted misery, by divine grace. At that point, another Satya Yuga begins, where the inhabitants are much better mannered spiritually, and primarlly focused on developing unconditional love as their objective and perfection.
Thank you very much for the valuable explanation. Interesting that I recently obtained Jay Weidner's movie "The Last Avatar" about Kalki. "Pop" Hindism doesn't say much about Kalki.
Hi Terry, thanks for your comment. I'm glad you found the info useful. I haven't seen the Weidner movie. The Vedas are pretty amazing. When they list an Avatar or Incarnation to appear in the future, usually some description is also predicted, like the name of parents of that personality and their mission. It's said Buddha appears every Kali Yuga with the mission of teaching non-violence. It is said in a previous Kali-Yuga, he appeared on the scene to stop an inter-planetary war.
Boom! Anyone who finds a way to tie in Swami Sri Yukteshwar, teacher and guru of the great Paramahansa Yogananda and Berwick (LOL) in the same sentence has my attention. 100% agree on Yukteshwar’s perspective.
Jai Guru!
Sri Yukteswarji and Paramahansa Yogananda are intimately tied into Q, in mind blowing ways.
How?
Use Q Clock logic. Dates and locations. Convergence. Shows Who and Why. Utterly astonishing.
Read the book Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda and hold onto your hat. :-)
I’ve read it
I read it ages ago. May read again.
I need to re-read it as well.
I will definitely research this. Thank you.
Buy Sri Yukteswar’s book: THE HOLY SCIENCE! Bless you, Clif!
Yes, bless you Clif I may be calling you one of these days soon!!!
How many other perspectives have you heard, or care to hear?
The end of the Kali Yuga in 2025: Unraveling the mysteries of the Yuga Cycle
https://grahamhancock.com/dmisrab6/
Thanks for referring the link and article. IMHO, the impressive length, did not necessarily equate to impressive credibility. Although written intelligently, there were contradictions and questionable references, that other assumptions were build on.
For example, scholar and 'nationalist of India' BG Tilak in his 1903 book asserts the Puranas were written about 1800 years ago, which is not a view held by most Vedic scholars.
Other opinions brought into the mix, such as those of Al-beruni passing negative judgement on Brahmagupta for holding to the information found in the Sanksrit Smirti, (which was recorded knowledge that was passed down for years by oral tradition). Was Al-beruni, as an Islamic scholar passing through India, predisposed to discrediting Hindu orthodoxy, one may wonder? Was his endorsement of newer speculations totally impartial and reasonable, in trashing the orthodox Smriti texts? Anyway, building a case based on BG Tilak and Yuktie's ideas as foundational, is not airtight by any means in my opinion.
As with practically any modern writing evaluating history, this author has stated many times - it could be, or perhaps, or maybe this happened which caused that, so we can conclude this.. not so fast tiger... such speculative lines of reasoning is also not a foundation of credibility.
The author goes on to quote a Western expert "Orientalist" who compares cultures and concludes Lord Rama appeared about 8,000 years ago, and was the same personality as Dionysus found in the writings from Greece... Wow! that's a jump there buddy! There are more than one or two scholars, that would call this complete nonsense.
People can write anything they want about the past, without having a clue as to what was actually happening, in various locations in various times - but who knows for sure?
Our only sources of information are those handed down orally, or written - which are naturally contradictory, due to the different subjective interpretations - unless they were handing down with information unchanged in a line of masters to disciples, but even then over the course of time, things tend to break down. There were other contradictions in the article, which added to the specter of doubt that I have about it's conclusions, but to use an over-used and now somewhat annoying phrase "it is what it is" - yet I will invoke it...lol.
It may very well be that there are cycles within cycles, which overlap from different points of view or cultures. There may be layered timelines that tell the same story, from different reference points. I will stick with the one I've learned from my spiritual masters lineage, because I can see the symptoms of Kali yuga all around me, and progressing in a certain direction - but at the same time, a Golden Age sub-calculation that is supposed to last for 10,000 years with in the long Kali yuga duration ahead. I'm not planning be around, to see it out :-). I would love to see a new era begin in 2025, whatever you want to label it, as I also think and hope the political and economic shitshow we are enduring in the present moment, will not last much longer, to be followed by the birth of a completely new way of living, as the old dies out.. specifically the mother-wefers. We don't need to have enmity on the details, since we are brothers and sisters in the same fight - to rid ignorance from our own hearts and minds and be of service to the truth of a greater reality and conscious Creator/Source we all have in common.
Well, there you go. Clif put out his opinion, and it generated yours. I thought your response was very interesting and gave me more information. I find it great to get deeper and expand on what he said! I would read more about it if I had the time, so thanks for your input. I underline the last three lines in your last paragraph. Thanks again.
Cycles in Cycles and there are an incredible variation in Cycles, and when negative ones align,look out. Great Post. Personally, I think , and m pretty sure, that the perceived periods of when things happened are a very long way off. It is perceived, for example, that characters and events were after the start of the interglacial optimum but to me, do appear to be firmly embedded earlier, in the Ice Age. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍🌟🌟🌟
Thanks Bob.
I agree with you that some fairly accepted ideas of humanity and timeline, are probably seriously out of whack. Years ago some friends of mine Micheal Cremo and Richard Thompson researched and wrote a book called Forbidden Archeology, which questioned many of the long held theories and timelines for humanity on earth.
I'm not saying it's absolutely definitive for all things past, but it shows abundant inconsistencies that made many squirm who wanted their established narratives etched in stone, so to speak.
From the volumes and volumes of Vedic literature translated into English and brought to America in the sixties, it seems clear to me that before this Kali yuga started about 5,000 years ago, the people of the Dwarpa Yuga were more highly advanced in knowledge of all types, compared to today. It's literally written in the books. That's not to say that there were not pockets of more primitive peoples inhabiting the earth. It's true today; why not then?
Descriptions of multi-universes, inhabitants of higher and lower planetary systems as determined by the levels of consciousness on those planets, the seeding of life on different planets - as the assigned mission of high-consciousness beings capable of inter dimensional and inter-planetary travel, plus travel various means has been described. Priests not only had the power to light sacrificial flames by sound/mantra, and had other mystic powers by being attuned to subtle energies, up to the point of release atomic-like weapons through sound/mantra. There are rare yogis even today in India that have some level of mystic power but they don't travel the world for fun and profit.
It's easy to get caught up in the side-shows and rabbit holes of the matrix/matterium we are in, but personally I'm aiming for pure, spiritual loving expressions of service as a means of not having to repeat the lessons of classroom earth - rather than trying to remain here as hopeful ring-master in a nut-job circus. Not trying to sound overly pious or beyond-it-all, just sayin'.
At the risk of too-much-info, there is a nice teaching in the Bhagavat Purana, wherein just as Krishna has left the planet, the personality of Kali Yuga appeared on earth; he was dressed as a king, and was about to kill a cow. The real king happened on the scene, as was about to kill the imposter who was about to kill the cow. The cow was actually the personality of Mother Earth, and was standing only one leg, as the others had been incapacitated by injury. The king asked Mother Earth, who had accosted her. She didn't blame anyone directly, but said it was from the on-set of the age of Kali, her injuries began. Her four legs represented the four qualities of the brahminical or priestly class, which were truthfulness, cleanliness, austerity, and mercy. All of these qualities had practically become absent due to the onslaught of the age of Kali. The only quality left was truthfulness; it was the one leg holding her upright.
The king banished the imposter to live only were unscrupulous acts occur, and thus the personality of Kali had more and more places to reside, as time and the Kali Yuga progressed. We can see today that the symptoms of Kali Yuga have almost full reign, as the last leg of goodness represented by truthfulness is now almost completely absent in the words of the so-called leaders of society, who are low-class cheaters with horrible intentions, dressed up as noble leaders.
So that is the stage, set for the Kali Yuga movie. Fortunately, we don't have to let the bad actors, rule our lives!
I was gonna post a response up top, but after I read yours, there's no point - and you said it better. I see the same "bleed-in" of "ages" - nothing changes on this scale just because a bell rang. I'm gonna have to "re-up" to finish this karmic thread.
Thanks for that link. I had forgotten about Hancock's webpage!
Serendipitously, Daniel Pinchbeck has just posted a new article on the subject of the End of Time:
"According to René Guénon, Julius Evola, Alain Danielou, and Helena Blavatsky, among others, we are living at the nadir of the Kali Yuga, the fourth, final, degenerate epoch."
https://danielpinchbeck.substack.com/p/the-geometry-of-the-end-of-time
Thanks Thomas. I had a quick look - reading was was available without signing up for the site. Looks interesting. Admittedly, the contributing authors are looking through their own lenses and ideas to coalesce a structured understanding or conclusion as to the Yuga cycle meaning.
The Vedas assert that the experience of time is different, in different planets or realms of consciousness. By earthly measure, huge amounts of time pass in correlation to 1 day in the higher planetary systems, where perfected mystic yogis reside - albeit they are still within the confines of this universe. A bit more philosophy in connection to Yuga concepts is below, if you feel so inclined to check it out. In any case thanks for your interest and update.
Brahma is called a Guna-Avatar of Krishna/Narayana/Vishnu as the secondary creator of the universe, performing the passionate act of creation in this one universe. There is said to be a Brahma in each universe. Brahma's primary Guna, or Mode, is passion (Rajas) in his creative function and Brahma is thus seen as an embodiment or Avatar of Narayana - regarding the material mode of passion. Maintenance is by Vishnu, and universal destruction by Siva - they are Guna Avatars of Sattva (Goodness) and Tamas (ignorance) respectively.
As this relates to the topic at hand, a partial devastation (pralaya) of the universe takes place after one day of Brahma. A day of Brahma is described in Bhagavad Gita as being the time of the four yugas cycles combined (Sattya+Treta+Dwarpara+Kali), times 1000 = one day of Brahma. After one day of Brahma the creation is partially destroyed by flooding of universal waters, and it remains un-manifested for an equivalent period - (the total years of the 4 yuga cycles combined, times 1000) is considered to be one night of Brahma.
In the Bhakti/Vaishnava lineage, Godhead is considered to be non-dual (Advaita) energies, but seen from 3 angles of vision according to the realization of the viewer .
1. Is the universal energy of Brahman, which is like the shining, non-material aura of the body of the absolute - it is all pervading, connected, brilliant spiritual energy. 2. The the Supersoul, or conscious universal guide who lives in each heart along side of the individual soul, and even within the atoms and atomic sub-particles. 3. the Personality of Godhead, who is universally and personally conscious in both divine masculine and divine feminine features of pure spiritual identity - which are also unlimited in their expansions.
The somewhat inconceivable expansions from one source into many can be understood better by realization, directly by the mercy of the Supersoul within one's heart, to a consciously aware individual - as opposed to theoretical intellectual calculation, which has it's limits of projected ideas as opposed to actual experiential realization by grace.
Manifestation and dissolution of the material universes, is considered to be 1/4 of all divine energy, with 3/4 of the spiritual energy eternally existing beyond the creation/destruction cycles of the matterium/material creation.
One interesting note is that at the end of each Kali yuga, where humankind's misuse of God-given free will gets so irresponsible and diverted in relationship to the potential expression of unconditional love in connection to Source, that a Vishnu avatar named Kalki, appears and basically liberates everyone from their self-inflicted misery, by divine grace. At that point, another Satya Yuga begins, where the inhabitants are much better mannered spiritually, and primarlly focused on developing unconditional love as their objective and perfection.
Thank you very much for the valuable explanation. Interesting that I recently obtained Jay Weidner's movie "The Last Avatar" about Kalki. "Pop" Hindism doesn't say much about Kalki.
Hi Terry, thanks for your comment. I'm glad you found the info useful. I haven't seen the Weidner movie. The Vedas are pretty amazing. When they list an Avatar or Incarnation to appear in the future, usually some description is also predicted, like the name of parents of that personality and their mission. It's said Buddha appears every Kali Yuga with the mission of teaching non-violence. It is said in a previous Kali-Yuga, he appeared on the scene to stop an inter-planetary war.
Ditto!